Tacoma Urbanist

Oct. 10, 2011 at 1:14pm

North End Neighborhood Council Candidate Forum Tonight at UPS

October 10, 2011

University of Puget Sound in the Rotunda
N. 14th and N. Lawrence
Tacoma, WA

More info
Each year, the North End Neighborhood Council holds a political forum for candidates seeking various political offices in Tacoma.

This year, the candidates running for the following offices are anticipated to be present at the forum:

Tacoma City Council at Large : David Boe and Micheal Hardy

Tacoma City Council at Large Position #8: Will Baker and Ryan Mello

Tacoma City Council Position #1 : Anders Ibsen and Karen Smitherman

Tacoma School Board Position #5 : Karen Vialle and Kim Washington

Tacoma School Board Position #3 : Dexter Gordon and Scott Heinze

Tacoma Civil Service Board : Anita Latch and Kyle Jolibois

Metro Parks Position #5: Erik Hanberg and Jerome (Jerry) Thorpe


Here are the procedures that have been followed in previous NENC Candidates� Forums:

1) Each Candidate will be allowed 1 minute for introductory remarks

2) During the question/answer period, each Candidate will have 1 minute to answer

3) Rebuttal is not allowed

4) Debating among candidates is not allowed

5) Questions will not be made available prior to the Forum

6) Questions will be solicited from audience members on the night of the Forum

7) If you are unable to attend you may send a statement to be read and/or a representative to read it; however, your representative will not be allowed to answer questions

8) You may distribute campaign literature and signs before the Forum begins, however you will be responsible for removing literature and signs when the Forum concludes

9) Timing, order, questions asked, and procedure followed is at the sole discretion of the Forum Moderator

comments [42]  |  posted under Tacoma


by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 1:52pm
Question for council candidates:

What would you say to an unemployed person who was hoping to get a job at the WalMart that the city council is currently opposing?

Question for council candidates:

The city currently pays its employees above average pay. Does this make sense in the middle of a recession?

Question for council candidates:

Is it appropriate for a small city to have over 700 employees earning in excess of $100K per year?

by Erik on 10/10/2011 @ 1:59pm
Here is the event on Facebook: www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152578378...

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 2:03pm
do you stand with #occupytacoma ? or the fat cats who destroyed this country?

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 3:39pm
I don't know anything about occupytacoma.

But if you're asking me if some Wall Street, some Insurance, some Banking, and some Underwriting executives should be serving prison sentences the answer is yes.

If you're asking me if some elected officials going back to Bill Clintons era and the community reinvestment program which required taxpayers to guarantee the mortgages for people who couldn't afford to buy homes should be removed from office the answer is also yes.

But we haven't learned our lesson. We're engaged in the same sort of behavior right now. The government is guaranteeing enormous student loans for people who are trying to get out of poverty, but many of the programs and degrees don't lead to promising careers. This is next big economic fiasco most people haven't heard of. Phony colleges, phony programs, phony degrees, real taxpayer obligations. Some of these "educators" should be in prison right now.

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 3:46pm
interesting but that was directed at Mr. Ibsen

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 3:59pm
My bad, I couldn't read your mind. I'll let you respond to my questions if it makes you feel any better.

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 4:07pm
I don't wanna be a jerk about it... i just thought we were throwing out questions. Woulda helped if you numbered questions too. Just saying.

I'm all about throwing wall street people in jail and firing politicians.

Carry on!

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 4:18pm
I don't expect Ibsen or any other candidate to answer my questions. I've given Ibsen and Smitherman both plenty of opportunities. Smitherman flat out refuses to answer and Ibsen makes up some rhetoric that's not responsive to my question.

I expect all the questions that get approved by the moderator are going to be softballs. I'd be surprised if anything is revealed tonight.

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 4:54pm
a response is better than nothing I say. IBSEN IN 2012 !

by Jesse on 10/10/2011 @ 5:00pm
Fredo: You're FOR the hundreds of welfare creating jobs at WalMart but not for entitlements? For that, it appears that WalMart is also getting gov't welfare subsidies. Pay low and let the gov't pick up the tab for your crummy welfare creating wages WalMart!!! So they pay a wage plus welfare so it's employees can... you know... eat.

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 5:02pm
fredo loves communist china currency manipulation !

by Jesse on 10/10/2011 @ 5:02pm
I would ask the candidates if I can see thier personal goals written out for the position at hand. I'd ask for time frames to accomplish these goals too.

by Jesse on 10/10/2011 @ 5:08pm
I'd ask them:

What is success?

How do you plan to get streetcars funded and when will someone actually quit giving lip-service to it and actually do something?

What is your plan for the Winthrop, PPN, or other troubled structures in town?

What is Tacoma's greatest strength and greatest weekness?

What would you do to create jobs in Tacoma?

If they don't have goals written down, that means they are more reactionary than proactive IMO. I'd rather have someone proactive and with goals.

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 5:18pm
How do the jobs at WalMart CREATE welfare? Does this mean that the employees at Target, Petsmart, Office Depot, Fred Meyer and other big box retailers are NOT on welfare? Why pick on WM if all the retailers are doing the same thing?

RE: streetcars, we can't afford any expensive new pet projects. Our pet projects are electric cars, reconciliation projects, baseball fields for millionaires, new furniture, empty convention centers, lavish parking lots and tremendous salary levels for city workers. Can't afford any more.

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 5:22pm
Jesse, if I can find one person who works at Nordstrom, or one person at REI, or one person at Microsoft who is on food stamps would that mean that Nordstrom, REI and Microsoft are getting "welfare subsidies?"

by low bar on 10/10/2011 @ 5:47pm
a forum with no rebuttals or debate? its not a forum then, north tacoma. idiots..

by fredo on 10/10/2011 @ 5:51pm
by low bar
on 10/10/2011 @ 5:47pm a forum with no rebuttals or debate?

yep, that bothered me too, low bar. It's going to be a pretty droll affair, sort of like that meet the candidates show on Channel TeeVee 12.

by low bar on 10/10/2011 @ 7:36pm
fuck drollness. let's copy the gays and start glitter-bombing drab affairs. or call in kermit the drone.

by NineInchNachos on 10/10/2011 @ 7:40pm
glitter bombs, pie in the face. all innovative non-violent forms of revolution

by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 8:37am
"How do the jobs at WalMart CREATE welfare? Does this mean that the employees at Target, Petsmart, Office Depot, Fred Meyer and other big box retailers are NOT on welfare? Why pick on WM if all the retailers are doing the same thing?" -- Fredo

People pick on WM because it's part of their very business plan to pay low wages as to put their workers on welfare as part of their "compensation" package. No other business is so deliberate about it and WalMart is one of the biggest money making companies in the world. They don't need to starve their employees but they choose to.

"RE: streetcars, we can't afford any expensive new pet projects." -- Fredo

Right now, to work and live in the downtown core, you almost surely need a car. Cars cost, on average, $700 a month to own and operate. Now imagine if you lived downtown, worked there, and could get around to any place you please, with ease... you'd probably get rid of the car? No? That's $700 a month for more rent toward your more expensive downtown condo. It's more money to eat out. It's more disposable money to spend... or it is a blessing to those who can't afford a car. This is the main reason why streetcars are a good investment, among others.
Right now LINK goes from one business district to another and virtually pays no attention to this main reason why streetcars are successful. Wait until they reach into MLK or the Stadium District... just wait...

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 9:11am
"People pick on WM because it's part of their very business plan to pay low wages as to put their workers on welfare as part of their "compensation" package. " jesse

Would you please provide a link to the WM "business plan" that states that welfare will part of the "compensation" package? I don't believe it, but if you can provide the link I will provide my apology.

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 9:16am
RE: the streetcars.

I didn't say they wouldn't be useful to people living downtown, or to people who didn't want the expense of an automobile. I merely stated that we couldn't afford an expensive new pet project.

The people living DT in the condos already get a government subsidy to live there. They get a 10 year property tax abatement worth probably $20-30K. I can't see any inherent equity in providing an even greater subsidy to these people.

by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 12:17pm
Option 1: provide zero tax abatement. Developer cannot afford to build as the units will have a hard time selling with PITI and condo fees. Therefore the project isn' built.
Option 2: offer tax abatements for ten years so people will want to buy those properties and therefore they get computer built. The property stands there occupied for 75 years. 75 years minus 10 of that as tax abated equals 65 years of tax revenue on a structure that would otherwise not be built.

by Erik on 10/11/2011 @ 12:24pm
Photo from the forum last night: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=20162723...

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 1:26pm
Jesse, first you were proposing new streetcar lines, now you're talking about new condominiums. How will new condominiums provide money to build street cars? I still don't understand this financing.

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 2:20pm
...almost forgot. Can I get that link to the WalMart business plan? Thanks.

by low bar on 10/11/2011 @ 2:48pm
"Cars cost, on average, $700 a month to own and operate."

I own 4 vehicles. All paid off. Why? Because they weren't bought new. I say buy the old stuff, the American stuff, and just up keep that vintage shit. I've got a 1976 K5 Blazer that kicks ass, yes it's thirsty, but me owning and operating it costs less then 700 a month. And it's made in America, or was. I don't see why each country just builds and buys their own shit?

Anyways, no one is forcing you to go to Walmart. I never buy anything there, or at least I try not to. If every American just tried not to, Walmart would notice. But not every American tries not to. Some of us have citizenship that we don't even fucking deserve.

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 2:55pm
My cars don't cost any $700 month either. I bought my two cars at the auto auction for about 3000 a piece a long time ago. Monthly costs are $50 month @ for insurance, $5 month @ for tabs, $75 month @ for gas and approximately $50 month @ for oil tires and maintenance. That's about $180 for each car. Streetcars wouldn't work for my family.

by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 2:58pm
Here's your WalMart link fredo. Read the part titled "wages".


by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 3:06pm
Cost to own a car? Calculate your cost here: www.edmunds.com/tco.html

How is it commonly calculated?

"According to Consumer Expenditures in 2006, released in February of 2008 by the U.S. Department of Labor's U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average vehicle costs $8,003 per year to own and operate."

Read more: www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/08/cost...

... and that is 2006!

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 3:17pm
I read the section that your referred to titled "wages." It doesn't mention any business plan to put the employees on welfare as part of their compensation package. Are you sure you didn't just make that up?

by NineInchNachos on 10/11/2011 @ 3:22pm

by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 3:23pm
Did it not say that Sam Walton himself said he's a low payer?

"Walmart founder Sam Walton once said, "I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We're going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment.""

So that doesn't prove low wages are part of the business plan?

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 3:30pm
Yes, it does say low wages are part of the business plan.

You claimed that WalMarts business plan included "putting people on welfare as part of their compensation package." Wikipedia didn't say that, Jesse did.

by Jesse on 10/11/2011 @ 4:09pm
Work for minimum wage 35 hours a week, with no benefits, with one or more kids, and I'll show you someone on welfare.

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 4:16pm
Where's the business plan that calls for "putting people on welfare as part of their compensation package?"

That's what you claimed.

by Nick on 10/11/2011 @ 4:31pm
Could we maybe shift the WalMart discussion over to this thread:


I'd actually be interested in talking about this forum, but I'm worried that discussion is going to get buried by the volume of posts about WalMart. Any objections to a migration over there (or another similar thread.... or even a new thread)?

by fredo on 10/11/2011 @ 4:52pm
Ok to move the discussion to your WalMart thread. No need to start any additional WM threads there are several already.

by NineInchNachos on 10/11/2011 @ 5:07pm
did you know walmart is like lame and stuff ?

by low bar on 10/11/2011 @ 7:23pm
Walmart is lame because we have no balls. The north tacoma forum has no balls. If you ask me we are clearly past our peak as a civilization. I mark America as being before and after the bands of the 60's-70's. Occupy UPS Campus. Wait never mind, that shit went down yesterday. Thanks for the droll FB pic link.

by NineInchNachos on 10/11/2011 @ 8:16pm
central tacoma is the heart of the revolution. Saturday we march again... and maybe somebody will give me a anti-walmart yard sign for the museum

by low bar on 10/11/2011 @ 11:24pm
Do it for the micro brewers! Revolt! And then after nothing happens we can all go to the fucking "BOHO" in Olympia and let a hack writer for the weakly volfucko serve us!