Jun. 23, 2009 at 12:34am
Joe "Grease Pencil" Turner over at the [Tacoma] News Tribune (TNT) reported earlier today on the existance of the Tim Eyman Bobble head.
Luckily our agents were able to intercept the original design instructions in an electronic cable in route to a Chinese sweat-shop manufacturing facility AND SUBSTITUTE a CORRECTION that more accurately characterizes Mr. Eyman (pictured below).
comments  | posted under art, bobble head, marketing, reality, tacoma, taxes, tim eymanComments
by NineInchNachos on 7/2/2009 @ 9:21pm
|"Assuming his numbers can be trusted (and that’s a huge assumption), Tim Eyman has apparently turned in enough signatures to qualify Initiative 1033 for the November ballot, his most vindictive, dangerous and mean-spirited initiative yet.
I-1033 is a “TABOR” initiative, one of many, similarly constructed spending-cap measures that have been peddled in the initiative states nationwide, and have been funded by a shadowy network of ultra-wealthy, right-wing extremists. Thus, unlike most of Eyman’s initiatives, don’t be surprised to see a fair amount of out of state money flooding into Washington to fund the “Yes” campaign.
The Washington State Budget and Policy Center has a great analysis of I-1033 and its consequences, and I encourage you to watch their slideshow, but don’t think it an exaggeration to summarize the measure as the end of Washington state government as we know it."
by fredo on 7/2/2009 @ 10:16pm
|NIN@ The 1033 initiative may be funded by a "shadowy network of ultra wealthy, right wing extremists," but it will only become the law if a majority of Washington State voters approve it.
About 70% of Eyman's initiatives are eventually approved by the voters so its hard to dismiss either his acumen or appeal.
Regarding the funding for the initiative, I think its fair to say that if the initiative was the darling of left wing extremists then we would see a fair amount of out of state money flooding into Washington from well-heeled liberals. That's the nature of politics.
by NineInchNachos on 7/2/2009 @ 10:26pm
|I just hope he fails like last time.|
by NineInchNachos on 7/2/2009 @ 10:31pm
|judge for yourselves...
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/3/2009 @ 7:33am
|The bill doesn't go far enough. The nimrods in Olympia we keep reelecting spend too damn much. I recently read that we're not the highest taxed state in the nation... but the share Olympia takes per capita IS the highest in the nation.|
I'd like to see the spending reduced, not capped.
Give all programs a 10% haircut, indiscriminately. Give all non-elected state employees a 10% haircut across the board. Cap all elected state officials at the WA state median income for individuals... especially the governor. Public office is a public service. I see absolutely no reason why any elected official should be paid more than the state's median income.
by jenyum on 7/3/2009 @ 8:55am
|Thorax, those programs include schools, health care, roads,and all kinds of other services that are already suffering under the current economic downturn. A 10% indiscriminate cut would be ruinous.
If the goal is to lower the property tax, we need what we've needed for decades: an income tax. No magical source of revenue will appear to replace the one this initiative would chop off.
by NineInchNachos on 7/3/2009 @ 9:04am
|Osama Bin Laden couldn't do more damage to our government with a thousand Boeing products than Eyman with his bamboozle initiative.
Eyman is an economic terrorist. His Jihad must be stopped. He needs to be thrown in the northwest detention center as he is a danger to himself and others.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/3/2009 @ 9:08am
|An income tax is beyond stupid. Olympia will keep our sales tax at 9.3%+ and add on another tax to that. The problem isn't that we don't collect enough taxes. The problem is that the idiots we keep voting for are compulsive shoppers. We need less spending, not more taxing.|
How about an outrageous property tax... as long as the "outrageous" really kicks in at above $400K. Below $400K it can be just unreasonable.
Add $5 to the tobacco tax.
Add a mileage tax to your car... drove 15,000 miles? That'll be $150, please.
Add a $50 "Seattle fee" to the 590,000 people who live in the 206
Add a $500 "Bellevue fee" for the goddamn yuppies in the 425.
Refund $5 to residents of the 253 for not living in previously mentioned area codes.
Mandate a non-refundable $1000 fee to run for governor and both houses of the state legislature.
If people are dumb enough to cry for an income tax, mandate a 50% tax rate for income earners above $500K/year
Have the state actually collect sales tax on the sale of Micro$oft products sold outside of WA borders (which, I recently found they are entitled to but have never collected).
Charge $60 to cross the border into WA.
Death fee of $8800
Retirement fee of $8800
Birth fee of $8800
Did-not-die-last-year fee of $8800
Occupying space tax of $8800
Carbon footprint fee of $8800 for being carbon-based life
See how absurd this can get?
As it is, we're already taxing people and businesses into the poorhouse. We really do not need more taxes, especially now. We need to spend less.
I haven't heard any complaints about cutting elected officials wages.
According to the state, the median income for a single earner is $45,156.
Cap every politicians wage to that and we'll save $Tens of Millions. Cap every WA state employee to it as well, and now we're saving $Hundreds of Millions.
by NineInchNachos on 7/3/2009 @ 9:09am
|It's good we have the signatures of all the people who signed this initiative. The signatures should be immediately relabeled as our new state terrorist watch list. These hick farm inbred idiots out in eastern Washington need to be smoked out of their rat holes.
You're ether with the puget sound alliance of city states or your against us.
LONG LIVE THE GOVERNMENT!
by seejane on 7/3/2009 @ 3:44pm
|Let's abolish taxes. We'll all have $1000s left over in our pockets. Every September parents can write a check for $10,000 for tuition.
We can auction off sections of roads for private business to maintain... and collect tolls on.
Need the fire department to come, be prepared to give your VISA card # to the 911 operator.
by jenyum on 7/3/2009 @ 4:06pm
|Thorax, everything costs money. Significantly more money than it used to. Aside from seizing all privately owned goods and services necessary for the public welfare I don't really see a way around the problem of increased government spending.
In the next two to three decades we are going to have to support a massive elderly population, with long term care needs. That is going to cost a lot of money, which has to come from somewhere. Particularly if we can't get it through our heads that we need to fix the broken health care system. An income tax taxes people who have.... income, and takes some of the burden off unemployed property owners and low income consumers. (Who bear the brunt of the sales taxes, as a proportion of their income.) 41 states have some form of income tax, and none of them have become socialist republics. (Yet)
by Dmitri on 7/5/2009 @ 2:31pm
|@Thorax ... I'm not sure about your claim that we are the highest taxed per capita, but if it is true, then keeping the income tax out hasn't done us much good, has it? One could write an initiative that created an income tax and reduced other taxes.
@Fredo ... You recently said you were the only conservative on the Feed. You've got Mofo ... you've got Thorax ... you had 5Views, until he decided to boycott us. You're not alone!
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/5/2009 @ 3:26pm
|Me? Conservative? Nah, I'm decidedly about center. I do not like to be called conservative or liberal. Rather than attach myself to a label, I go with my conscience.|
And as for the per capita, it's not an over-all metric. It's the actual State's share of the taxes per capita that are the highest. The number I read (this was in the PSBJ) indicated that the 6.5% added to all other state level taxes and fees puts Olympia's share at the highest per capita.
And in regards to Jenyum, state income taxes and the 77 million baby boomers being supported by about 40 million millennials and Gen X-ers, that is a losing equation in all manners. Truth be told, there is no way our governments, from local to federal, can ever fund their obligations. Even a 100% tax rate will not pay the $50 Trillion amount of obligations that Uncle Sam estimates that it alone is on hook for... much less adding state and local level obligations to the list. And all this is just pension, healthcare, disability, social security, etc obligations. None of that include the teradollar debts and interest we have spiraling out of control as well.
Even with all the funny-money schemes dreamed up by the banks and the Federal Reserve, enough money to cover the bill doesn't even exist.
We've heard for years that "social security is broken". I'm afraid that all these burgeoning obligations will end up being defaulted on in my lifetime. 25 years, maybe? I don't know. What I can say with confidence is that this recession we're in is an analog to the Great Depression because it it is preceding a radical re-set and change of the social system. In the 30s, the government created safety nets. In the 10s and 20s, we're going to find those same nets can no longer be supported in any way resembling what we call a "standard way of life".
The world isn't ending, nor will it end. It's just yet another re-set and adopting of a new experiment... I promise that even in a best-case scenario, the world on July 5th 2020 will be radically different than that of today.
by fredo on 7/6/2009 @ 11:11am
|The Washington State liberals are a confused lot. They continually elect tax and spend candidates. Then when an Eyman tax cutting initiative appears on the ballot they cross over and vote with the conservatives. There is no way the Eyman initiatives could pass without the support of these inconsistent liberals.
Dmitri@ Good call. It would be fair to include Twisty in your list of feedTacoma conservatives as well.
by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/6/2009 @ 3:53pm
|Can't we get a ballot measure going to export Tim to Idaho?|
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/6/2009 @ 8:17pm
|"The Washington State liberals are a confused lot"
I'd take that one step further and say Washingtonians in general are a confused lot... we want to save the Spotted Owl and the Doug Fir yet we build McMansions up into the foothills and drive more trucks and SUVs than anywhere I've ever seen.
by NineInchNachos on 7/9/2009 @ 10:16am
|some of the best discussion about 1033 i've heard (literally it's a podcast)|
"[24:01] Finally, the panel examines Initiative 1033 that would limit future state spending to inflation plus population growth. Two major flaws of the initiative are discussedďż˝the downward ratchet from economic dips and use of the wrong inflation index. If passed, will I-1033 cause Washington State to follow in the dreadful fiscal footsteps of California? A raucous debate ensues over whether angry scare tactics are the right approach for fighting the initiative."
i submit that this imitative will only accelerate the ultimate collapse of the American something-for-nothing cultural experiment
by tacoma1 on 7/9/2009 @ 12:23pm
|If you want fewer: teachers, policemen, firefighters, public health workers, more potholes, and less transit, and more buildings to crumble in our downtown, initiative 1033 could possibly be the best way to get it.
Personally, I am not a proponent of any of the above. The jobs that will be lost and or go unfilled are jobs for our neighbors and friends. This initiative will prolong the recession, not ease it.
by fredo on 7/9/2009 @ 7:31pm
|If you want lower property taxes, initiative 1033 could possibly be the best way to get it.
Personally, I am a proponent of the above. The taxes that will be lessened will not only benefit me, but my neighbors and friends. To the extent that the recession is a function of government over spending and over taxation the initiative should ease it.
by NineInchNachos on 7/9/2009 @ 7:40pm
|Fredo proposes a nihilist philosophy of death to the washington state way of life. I hope firefighters can buy food with IOU's like our friends in California.|
by NineInchNachos on 7/9/2009 @ 7:43pm
|Tim Eyman is selling you snake oil friend. He's selling you a rain dance. Don't be a sucker!|
by fredo on 7/9/2009 @ 8:01pm
|The Washington State way of life?
You mean the high unemployment rate, the high business failure rate, the high tax rates, skyrocketing sales taxes, crumbling infrastructure, low graduation rates and handouts to millionaire business owners? I hope property owners can buy food with what little remains after paying their taxes.
If Governor Gregoire wanted to head off public support for the initiative she could call the legislature back into session and urge them to get serious about cutting state spending.
by NineInchNachos on 7/9/2009 @ 8:44pm
|Mr. Fredo. You are a smart guy. Hand outs to millionare business owners? 1033 is being engineered by millionare business owners. Beware! Mr. Eyman is nothing more than a judas goat leading our citizens to the slaughter house of anarchy. No matter what happens to you and me, he will be taken care of by his puppet masters.
If you think it is bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.
where does funding for infrastructure come from?
where does funding for education come from?
I choose life. I choose police and firemen. I choose ferry boats. I'm going to put on my pants and pay taxes like a civilized HUMAN BEING DAMN IT!
by fredo on 7/9/2009 @ 9:27pm
|Well, I suppose we can follow the Eyeman judas goat (as you've described) or continue drinking Chris Gregoire's Kool-aid. I think the electorate has tired of her management "style" and may want to try a new approach.
"If you think it is bad now, you haven't seen anything yet."
NIN, I think you've just stumbled on the most fitting campaign slogan for the democrats in the next election. LOL
by NineInchNachos on 7/9/2009 @ 9:37pm
|so elect people to fix it. eyman's option is extinction of our civilization and you're just going to follow him into the inferno.
I'm trying to save your life you silly old fart! Eyman has his box cutter at the throat of our government, will no one rise up with me to save her?
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/9/2009 @ 11:53pm
I say we gut it and start again. Default on all debt, recall all elected politicians, abolish government employee unions and re-evaluate the tax code. It's what California is going to have to do, and in case no one noticed, that bad juju is moving up the left coast. Oregon is getting it now, and we are starting to feel it too. Let's just save the time, drama and bullshit and get it out of the way now.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/10/2009 @ 1:56am
|FYI, this data comes from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
10 Most Broke States
* California: $53.7 billion shortfall or 58 percent of its budget
* Arizona: $4 billion shortfall or 41 percent of its budget
* Nevada: $1.2 billion or 38 percent of its budget
* Illinois: $9.2 billion or 33 percent of its budget
* New York: $17.9 billion or 32 percent of its budget
* Alaska: $1.35 billion shortfall or 30 percent of its budget
* New Jersey: $8.8 billion or 30 percent of its budget
* Oregon: $4.2 billion or 29 percent of its budget
* Vermont: $278 million or 25 percent of its budget
* Washington: $3.6 billion or 23 percent of its budget
* Connecticut: $4.1 billion or 23 percent of its budget
by fredo on 7/10/2009 @ 7:17am
An eye opening post, to be sure! It's interesting to me that for years Washington State government labor unions have used the high payroll data from the states listed (particularly California) as support for raising their own payroll. Now that the veil has been lifted we can see its all just an unsustainable circle jerk. Your proposal sounds a bit anarchist to me, but in general I think you're on the right track.
by NineInchNachos on 7/10/2009 @ 7:56am
|Thorax is correct. the system is going down... but 1033 kicks the process into atmosphere re-entry burn out mode. I'm talking all the cynical parts of ROBOCOP but minus the cyborg hero.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/10/2009 @ 10:51am
|No, Fredo. It's not anarchist at all, although a true anarchy would be awesome if it could be done. But we all know that humans often have issues getting along, so even a voluntary anarchy would quickly dissolve into chaos and brutality. We're not grown up enough to take care of ourselves, I'm afraid.|
What I was saying is that clearly the system here on the WA level is just as f*cked up as the federal level. We really don't need to start again from scratch... corporations and special interests have more power than ever and likely something new from scratch would end up worse than we have.
To pull an analogy from a big WA business:
You know how if you let Windows run too long without a reboot it starts getting squirreley? Things don't run right, and the system starts using too many resources and performance becomes noticeably worse. The solution is ususally to reboot and remove the crap that installs itself when you go on the 'net.
That's where we're at. WA doesn't need to be FDISKed and reinstalled. It needs to be rebooted and have the bloatware removed.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/10/2009 @ 11:02am
|Something else to note.
I'm actually a pro-union guy and a proud member of the USW. But in case no one noticed, the USW 'round here hasn't striked in 20 years... and that I'm also a private sector employee.
Unions belong in the private sector, not government. If my company wants to get rid of the union, they can move to a right-to-work state (like South Carolina, home of Vought Aircraft Industries). Local government can't do that.
I do think public employees provide an essential service, and dangerous occupations like law enforcement and firefighting should be well compensated. BUT I don't think a retired police chief is entitled to a $250K annual pension after retirement at 55. Or law makers are entitled to free healthcare for life even if the only serve one term. That's part of the unreasonableness of our situation. Government is not there as a cash cow, it is to be a public service.
The government should compensate well for essential services, but it should never offer pay and benefits that the private system could never match.
by tacoma1 on 7/10/2009 @ 11:03am
|Is it just me, or did everyone forget about Tim Eyman's tearful confession that he is a liar. Not my opinion, it was is own admission. Why anyone believes a thing he says is amazing.|
"The sponsor, Tim Eyman, said in February that he had lied about taking money"
Colorado tried this TABR type of legislation, and found it to be a total failure, and retarded business growth. They have repealed it now.
by fredo on 7/10/2009 @ 10:32pm
|Apparently Tim is in good company. Please note:
During the 2004 gubernatorial campaign Chris Gregoire stated that if elected she would not raise taxes.
During the 2008 gubernatorial campaign she claimed there was no deficit.
These were both lies.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/10/2009 @ 10:44pm
For a moment, let's throw aside affiliations, parties and all that bull-honkey. Look at the situation:
All politicians lie.
All politicians tell you what it takes to get your vote.
All politicians are thralls to their big corporate donators.
All politicians tow party lines (whatever those may be).
All politicians care about us only during elections.
All politicians have ultimately failed the People.
Granted, I will happily concede that they have done some good and not all are completely incompotent. But you're fooling yourself if you really think that one party is different than the other or that one politician is clean enough to throw stones.
Politics is like life: it's a messy business. There isn't black or white, it's all gray. There aren't any absolute answers or decisions. We're all of us screwed up in one way or another... you just have to wonder if the system actively recruits the most screwed up of us or screws you up worse.
by fredo on 7/11/2009 @ 9:45am
|"Colorado has tried this type of legislation...found it to be total failure...(and) have repealed it now."
Washington has tried incompetent governors and legislators...found them to be a total failure...and in November may effectively repeal their authority.
by tacoma1 on 7/11/2009 @ 10:21am
You have stated in the past that you support streetcars in Tacoma, and that you oppose the proposed birm tressels for the D-M Sounder extension.
By decimating County and City government budgets, and by gutting Pierce Transits budget, how would we ever be able to get streetcars here?
How would we ever be able to afford post and beam tressels? How would we ever be able to keep buildings from crumbling Downtown?
by NineInchNachos on 7/11/2009 @ 10:28am
|when fredo's house burns down in 2011 due to illegal fireworks he tried to report but no cops were available, fredo will call the fire department, but by then it will be too late. Spread desperately thin, The TFD will eventually show up to put out the cinders. |
The valiant efforts of Thorax O'Tool trying to put out the fire with his pressure washer from the bed of his pickup truck will be noted in the TNT AP article. "If you have a fire call Thorax O'Tool Freelance Firefighter." it will read, "I can at least save your dog house or tool shed."
A teary Fredo will finish the article with an ironic "I was just starting to enjoy the benefits of not having a property tax and mooching off the city for free. Our god is an wrathful god."
by fredo on 7/11/2009 @ 11:58am
|I 1033 does not eliminate the property tax nor does it afford property owners the possibility of "mooching off the city for free."
If all the police and firemen and all other government workers were offered their jobs at 80% of their current salary and benefits would they quit?
But just in case you're right Nachos I intend to keep Thorax's number on speed dial.
by tacoma1 on 7/11/2009 @ 12:24pm
The best and most talented would apply for jobs in other States. We would be left with the under acheivers and non performers which I believe is the very type of government employee that you don't like.
Also, since firemen and policemen risk their lives on a daily basis, what basis would it be that you offer them a 20% wage cut?
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/11/2009 @ 5:45pm
|@ Tacoma1... I mentioned it on my streetcar thread. I'm not in favor of 1033. I'm also not in favor of an income tax. The nimrods we keep electing need to learn how to balance a budget, instead of being in the hole by 23%.|
Also note that paying hazardous duty pay for police and the fire department is absolutely justified. A $250,000 annual pension starting at age 55 for the chief, on the other hand is not.
And RR & Fredo... take comfort in knowing I've been trained how to fight fires from the cool zone, and in certain circumstances, the warm zone. PASS, baby!
by fredo on 7/11/2009 @ 11:21pm
|tacoma1@ The contracts that police and fire work under, as well as those of other government employees, were negotiated at a time when the economy was good and tax revenues were strong. If payroll has to be readjusted for the state to regain solvency, well, that's just business. It's nothing personal.
Plenty of people in the private sector have taken similar cuts in take home pay.
Regarding the possible departure of some disillusioned workers, what state do you recommend they go to for better employment? According to Thorax's excellent table above, all the west coast states are broke. I suppose they could move to West Virginia or Oklahoma and make some big bucks.
Remember, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 7:30am
|This is not an adjustment due to recession we are talking about.
Those adjustments have already been made.
This year was extremely tough for state legislators, who agonized over very difficult budget cuts in nearly all areas of state management.
Were this thing to pass, those tough decisions, made by representatives who are accountable to the constituents who elected them, would be out of their hands, and permanently so. (Or until the state came to it's senses and repealed the law.)
The cap would apply regardless of the economic state of the state, adjusted for inflation yes but for *national* inflation figures, and based on the previous year's inflation rate. Additionally, the available revenue will not cover our existing commitments, let alone allow for more spending when economic conditions improve.
If you live in Washington State and you breathe, drink water, enjoy the protection of fire and police, go to the library, would like to experience less than 12 hour waits in the emergency room, or have children in public school you should vote NO. And you should tell everyone you know to vote no.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 8:40am
|Jen@ We elect legislators to make "tough decisions" and this occasionally requires "agonizing." If the job is too arduous, I suppose they could quit, stay home, and watch Sewing With Nancy.
Quite frankly, the people I know with government jobs are not suffering the effects of the recession nearly as much as the people I know who work in the private sector. The government is supported by the private sector. Before engaging in "existing commitments" it would behoove the elected officials to see how things are going in the private sector.
One correction to your posting. 1033 does not limit voter sponsored taxes in any way. If voters wish to add a tax for water, air, libraries, or whatever they are free to do so.
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 9:22am
|Right, voter sponsored tax initiatives are a very cost effective way to go about getting funding for basic services when we already have these things called "legislators" who we already pay to study the budget more than 99.999% of voters ever would. These are people we, the voters, elect to do this job. For us. They are pretty accessible people, I've met and talked to many of them and I wasn't even wearing my elitist intellectual badge at the time. If you don't like the way they do their job, elect a different legislator, but don't pass off budgeting to some arbitrary number written on a ballot measure.
I think it is a brilliant idea to have fire fighters out pounding the pavement distributing costly printed literature explaining the benefits of voting for funding fire protection services, instead of providing fire services. Which they won't be doing, on account of all the layoffs.
Please for a moment just stop thinking of governernment workers as someone who has something you don't, and start thinking of them as the people who teach your kids, protect you from crime and property destruction, maintain your parks and streets, and monitor the air you breathe and the water you drink. If you would like all of that to stop, I am sure you can find any number of countries where these basic services are not available and move your family there.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 10:19am
|The right of Washington citizens to bring an initiative to the voters is not going away, so the people who oppose the initiative process are going to have to learn deal with it.
Instead of complaining about 1033 why don't you start your own tax-increasing initiative and get 241,000 like-minded voters to sign your petition?
Finally, I didn't say government workers aren't doing a good job and aren't working hard. I merely said that when times are tough, like they are now, they should be willing to accept pay cuts just like people in the private sector do. It's called belt tightening.
If you would like the initiative process to stop, I am sure you can find any number of countries where it is not available and move your family there.
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 10:36am
|I don't need to start my own tax-increasing initiative, I need you to vote no on I-1033. Your kids do, too, and so do their future kids.|
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 10:54am
|Jen@ I need you to vote yes on 1033 (assuming it is certified). Your kids and their future kids need it too. They should enjoy the opportunity to own a home without the fear of being taxed out of it.|
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 11:29am
|The average teaching salary in Washingon State is approximately $46,000. The state's public school budget for the 2009-11 biennium is 16.8 billion, based on the assumption that costs to maintain current spending commitments would increase by 11% by the end of 2011. If funding for these cost increases were cut by 6.8% (or 1.1 billion dollars), that cut would equate to nearly 24,000 teacher salaries, or approximately 40% of all classroom teachers in the state.
True, we wouldn't have to actually lay off all of those teachers, they could just elect to take a 40% pay cut. That would work out to $13/hour, about the same wage as the typical office temp. I'm sure many highly qualified, patient individuals would sign up for 5+ years of higher education to make that wage teaching math to 30+ thirteen year olds.
And that's just education. The same thing would happen across all portions of city, state, and county services. Would you be a firefighter or a police officer if it didn't pay more than a grocery bagger job?
We can't afford that kind of loss of talent, which is why layoffs and cuts in services are the far more likely outcome. We won't lose 24,000 teachers but we might lose 8,000, and 16,000 teachers aides, and 5,000 school maintenance workers, and 4,000 firefighters, and 10 fire inspectors, and 100 libraries, and 10 more state parks, and 200 DSHS workers, and 40,000 more kids kicked of the state health insurance program.
And in 2016 you'll be six hours into an emergency room wait with your 18 year old who needs an x-ray but has to wait for the 100 people seeking basic medical care because they have no other doctor available to them, during which wait you will have lots of time to explain why you don't have any money to send her to the college of her choice because you spent all that money on Sylvan Learning Center after the student teacher/ratio was too high for her to get the individualized attention she needed to pass AP math courses, and you had to pay to send her to TCC to take the advanced calculus class that was cut the summer before her senior year.
That might have been OK, but the after school care program that used to be subsidized was cut when she was in 4th grade, and you had to send her to an expensive private program that required you to pick her up from school and drive her every day, resulting in a loss of income from time you had to close your business to accommodate the drive.
And then you have the payments for the big line of credit you had to take out to cover your deductible after all that damage from the fire back in '14, which started small but resulted in tremendous water damage after the fire trucks took 10 minutes to respond, since your neighborhood fire station was closed due to budget cuts in 2012.
And of course there's grandma, and her Alzheimer's. You discussed sending her to long-term care, but the daily horror stories on the news about terrible conditions in state run homes made that out of the question. Your wife stayed home to provide round the clock care, which meant you had no second income to cover day to day expenses and left you with sole responsibility for managing the kids' transportation needs.
So your kid is just going to have to understand that you can't afford Western Washington State University, now that tuition has just been hiked another 40%, and what is she going to do with that education anyway? It's not like there are any jobs in Pierce County that require a college education, except maybe city and teaching jobs, and they've had hiring freezes since 2013.
And don't be dense and do what your brother did, you warn her, and pay a bunch of money for one of those vocational programs. After he took out that big student loan he got stuck with a mountain of debt, and nobody's hiring mechanics. He finally got a job and then he hurt his back. Worker's comp only covered the first month of treatment and now he's back to living in the basement, playing video games and eating cheetoh's all day. Worksource is supposed to get him into a retraining program but the waiting list is about 8 months long.
No, if she's really serious about becoming a doctor she'll have to go live with a friend of a friend in NY State, who owns a bikini barista business. After a couple of years working there, she'll have in-state status and can put the money she's earned on tips toward state school. Sure, you'll help her out, but you expect her to send home 40% of her income on account of all that money you've invested in her education.
You know, all of this would be really tough, had you not gotten that killer break on your property taxes.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 12:26pm
|Wow Jen, if the democrats start taxing blog posts by the word they will be able to cover those teacher raises from your contribution alone. However, I did enjoy your colorful scenerios and whack statistics.
People who don't enjoy the fruits of 1033 can start their own initiative to increase taxes. I pointed this out in my posting at 8:40 this morning.
And while you sound sympathetic to every constituency you seem to be curiously unsympathetic to the thousands of home owners who are being taxed out of their homes. Any concern for them?
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 1:00pm
|Since they use fire and police and roads and hospitals and schools and long-term care facilities and libraries and water and sewer and.... you get the idea, then yeah, I am concerned for them.
I am concerned that they would put short term savings ahead of their own self interest and the long term well being of their own families.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 1:29pm
Your anti 1033 approach mirrors your School Board levy approach from a few months back. Your side is all good, progressive and enlightened and sprinkles fairy powder and moonbeams over all the miserable people who don't know how to think for themselves. The opponents are miserable, short sighted self interested dolts who want to ruin the country. How's that approach working?
The next time you drive by a fire station or a school look at the employee vehicles in the parking lot. I think you'll see a preponderance of expensive SUVs and late model tricked out pickup trucks.For me that invalidates the argument that government employees are underpaid.
by jenyum on 7/12/2009 @ 1:52pm
|It's not my approach with everyone, Fredo.
I understand why some people would be for this initiative (though I think they are wrong) but why a local small business owner with children in public school would support a massive cut in local jobs and services is, admittedly, a little tough for me to understand. Properties don't buy things, but government employees and construction workers sure do, as do the nearly 50% of Tacoma residents who do not own homes (but do pay *rent* to property owners) but will have their services stripped anyway in order to supplement the wealth of their landlords. 1033 would cause you, Fredo, to lose money in the long term. So yes, I suppose I am saying, I think you are being a short sighted dolt in this instance and I suppose that is why my communications with you would seem to reflect that opinion.
by tacoma1 on 7/12/2009 @ 4:14pm
|I believe that the unforeseen consequences of I-1033 would be extremely harmful to small business interests in the long term. If I-1033 passes, it will prolong this miserable recession that we all are in, It will also cause more small business' to fail while the recovery is postponed. Big money can then come in and pick up the pieces for bargain basement prices. |
Tim Eyman receives most of his money to fund his initiatives not from a groundswell of grass root support or local small business owners, but from Michael (I'm a multimillionaire) Dunmire of Woodinville. All of his initiatives seem to follow the same basic theme (we will all go to the poor house because: government is bad, our taxes are too high). Mr. Dunmire, will of course, not go to the poor house regardless of what happens with I-1033, he can easily afford to fund lot's of initiatives, and pay his taxes, and buy whatever he wants.
Anytime a multimillionaire spends more money than the average working guy's annual salary, just to convince us that we can't afford to live here anymore, I get this something is fishy feeling.
If a small business owner does vote for I-1033, and it passes, they will likely save some money on their property taxes, and lose much more at the business. Of course, you can't count customer's not coming in your door, so it will be easiest to blame the government again, and complain about the now lowered taxes being still too high when business is still poor.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 4:32pm
|Eight of Eyeman's eleven initiatives have been approved by the voters of Washington and are now the law.
The voters who approved the initiatives are the same people who elected Chris Gregoire Governor, Barak Obama President and approved the development of Sound Transit.
Were the voters stupid?
by tacoma1 on 7/12/2009 @ 4:49pm
|When the voter's approved I-695, the resident's of Island County voted overwhelmingly for it. They are also the one county that is most dependent on Washington State Ferries. WSF's revenue was most dependent upon the fees derived from the very license tabs that I-695 repealed. The voters of Island County voted against their own best interest. They got cheaper tabs, worse ferry service, and much more expensive fares. They didn't save a dime, and this initiative was ruled unconstitutional.
OLYMPIA (14 March 2000) - This morning, King County Superior Court Judge Robert Alsdorf ruled Initiative 695 unconstitutional.
So are the voters stupid? Maybe so, but more likely they can be misinformed or misled be a slick salesman promising them a free lunch.
Anytime a multimillionaire (Tim Eyman's initiatives would not exist without Michael Dunmire) is trying to convince me that things are too expensive I get suspicious.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 4:57pm
|I think I understand now.
When the voters elect democratic leaders and approve tax increases for enormous public projects that's the result of careful deliberation and heightened voter awareness.
When voters pass conservative initiatives its because they are easily misled by slick salesman and a flurry of misinformation.
by tacoma1 on 7/12/2009 @ 6:00pm
|By George, I think you've got it!
Also, I can vote our local politicians out of office if they screw up.
I have zero faith that Michael Dunmire or Tim Eyman has my best interests in mind. I can't vote them out of office.
by fredo on 7/12/2009 @ 7:11pm
|tacoma1@ The voters seem to love Eyman and his initiatives regardless of the sponsorship non-issue. So you and Jen are definitely in the minority on this one.|
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/12/2009 @ 9:27pm
|Those figures aren't all that accurate.
Last January when I got hurt at work, I spent 7 hrs waiting at the St Joe's ER. Granted, I understand that the dude having a heart attack should have priority over me. But I really do think it is unreasonable to have to sit there with a scalp laceration for that long.
I'd also like to point out the Tacoma PD never showing despite two 911 calls about that fight by my parent's house last month.
And I'd further like to mention the continual levies and taxes we keep paying on, yet teachers don't get raises.
So, what is there to do?
Well, to be fair we're already taxed to the max and we can't endure any hikes.
But to be fair, everything is expensive. Also, if our elected officials can't figure out how to cut back in a meaningful way, how is it that Tim Eyman can figure that out as well? As best as I can see it, his plans cut from the worst possible areas. It's like he doesn't care what gets cut as long as he benefits. I think tax cuts are great, but it has to be done right.
So then, what is the problem? I think this is a classic example of the "too many Chiefs and not enough Indians" problem.
How many administrative staff positions are there per teacher? Per cop? Per firefighter? Per game warden?
We've become a society of paper pushers, where office jockeys are valued more than people who do actual, meaningful work. I've been told in WA the ratio of admin to teachers approaches 2:1 in some districts. Why the hell do we need 2 admin positions per teacher? Or one per teacher? We could be giving our teachers a 50% raise if we cut out the office fluff.
The same goes to the police, and the like. We need more bodies on the ground, and we need them better taken care of. Step one to reduce the need for taxes is to cut out the office fluff.
I'm sorry, but a cop on the beat is more valuable than 10 paper pushers.
by L.S.Erhardt on 7/12/2009 @ 9:46pm
|My bad for double post here, but I have another thought that deserves another post rather than adding on to the previous ramble.|
Government is supposed to be by the people and for the people. 1033 has been certified to be on the ballot, so we, the people rightfully get to have our say about it. Likely it won't pass, but if the good citizens of WA pass it, there is a clear message: All the "value" we're getting for the cost apparently isn't worth it. Campaign all you like for either side... it's your god-given right to do so. But if the voters go the way you don't like, you have to remember majority rules... whether we like it or not. And personally, I'd rather live under majority rules than under minority rules.
And Fredo: what's wrong with a high property tax? Unfairly low property tax systems like California's Prop 13 are so horribly bad. It causes an artificial property bubble! House prices would never have risen like they did during the last decade had taxes been higher. And now look at the price we're paying for this. What's happening in Cali is only a yer ahead of Oregon and 18 months ahead of us.
If anything, I support a reduction in most taxes and an increase in property taxes. Owning property is a privilege, not a right, and there should be a fair cost associated with it.
Also, WA state tax code exempts "intangible" property from taxes. You know, so-called intellectual property. I fully support taxing that at a comparable rate as well.
by fredo on 7/13/2009 @ 8:44am
|"...what's wrong with high property taxes?"
Well, since you asked there are a number of things.
One aspiration that almost every person has and one which President Obama supports is home ownership. The higher the property tax the less likely buyers on the low end will qualify for a mortgage.
High property taxes make rental units more expensive as well. They're rolled right into the rent even if it's not itemized for the renter. This diminishes the pool of affordable housing.
Rising property taxes are especially harmful to people on fixed incomes such as social security and for people who have lost their jobs.
High property taxes become "confiscatory." In other words the tax becomes so high the government is basically just taking your ownership interest back.
There's a great book I'd like to recommend to you and the rest of the readers. Its a NY Times bestseller and a quick read. The title is "Liberty and Tyranny" by Mark Levin. He discusses the development of property rights in the US.
The ownership of property is right as well as a privilege. Some people spend their hard earned money on property. Some spend it on jet skiis, baseball cards, home entertainment systems, wardrobes, etc. Why should the property buyer be singled out for a penalty?
by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/13/2009 @ 10:51am
|Leave Obama out of this. All presidents are for home ownership. They are also for apple pie, hot dogs, and kissing babies. All presidents are also for raising taxes. Some tell you that they will raise them and then they raise them. Some will tell you they will not raise them, or they will reduce them, and then they end up raising the taxes. Don't try to make it look like Obama supports your position, even by inference.|
by fredo on 7/13/2009 @ 11:11am
|I didn't refer to the President's position on I1033 specifically or on property taxes in general. I don't even know if he has a position.
However, it is appropriate in a political discussion to reference ideals voiced by elected leaders. Lowering the property tax rate would help advance the President's expressed position. I think the feedtacoma readers are intelligent enough to parse the narrative I've provided. Thanks anyway.
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